On Pride and Admitting When You're Wrong
Every now and then I like to not post for a day or two, just to see if the world will explode.

Sadly, I am not, as of yet, that important. However, thank you guy-that-hit-refresh-20-times-in-2-minutes. You made me feel pretty special. Don't worry, I'm still here. Some days my brain is just really fried.


A recent huge blowout with my parents got me thinking...

Why do people refuse to admit when they are wrong?

Why is it that when a raid wipes, and a RL asks what happened, no one wants to step up and say "look, I'm sorry, I didn't help DPS those snobolds. Obviously, I should have done so, so let's try again, and I will." Instead, so many times we are stuck floundering repeatedly, having to watch everyone else to see who is doing what wrong.

Look, if you do something wrong, if you screw up in a raid, just step up and admit it. It makes the whole thing go so much faster, really.

And you over there - if someone has the guts to step up in a raid and admit they did something wrong, then give them some respect for having the courage to do it, and shut up about it. If you have some tips to help them not screw up, that's great. But going on and on about what an idiot they are for making the mistake is just wasting time and is not helping anyone.

I'll be the first to admit when I screw something up, unless I'm just being grouchy, stubborn, and stupid. Yeah, that happens on occasion, surprise. What frustrates me, however, is when I'm the only one willing to step up and confess I screwed up. Usually the entire wipe is not just my fault guys, don't let me take all the blame. Step up yourselves and make it known. Don't put someone else in the position where they feel they have to call you out.

If you are having trouble healing someone and keeping them alive without running out of mana, you need to say something. Maybe your gear is weak, but does it matter? Maybe you should have a different healing assignment. Maybe the Druid can throw some hots on your target to help out. Or maybe you are a holy priest, and you just aren't really built to solo-heal the MT and the OT through TOC25.

ETA: I feel that in the interest of full disclosure, I should confess that one time Fulguralis was leading a ToC raid, and he called me out for not spreading out and therefore all the healers dying, and I totally threw a hissy fit... even though he was right.

God I hate admitting it when boys are right. Especially Warlock boys. They're so UPPITY.
14 Responses
  1. Keredria Says:

    I think its easier to admit when you've screwed up when you know that you are in a raid that accepts that its normal for people to make mistakes from time to time and will not yell at you or give you too hard a time.

    Anyways, "every now and then I like to not post for a day or two, just to see if the world will explode" = best quote ever!

  2. Breevok Says:

    Unfortunately, people find it difficult to admit mistakes - as they don't want to appear weak/stupid/incompetant.

    Why? Because they fear being kicked from the raid for messing up. This is only being reinfornced by the ultra-aggressiveness being seen in PUGs and the like and across the blogsphere for those people that don't meet the expectations of some random set of criteria people have in their heads.

    Ultimately logs will explain most things - so I totally agree with MM, step up, admit and move on.

    A decent RL just wants to succeed, and won't boot players because of a first mistake. If they do, they are either in need of a personality implant or scream 'Moar Dots!' at the top of their voices in Onyxia.

  3. River Says:

    Simple Pride is partly the reason. People fear you will think less of them if you fail.

    There's an old samurai story, There was a lord who never hired a samuarai who didn't make a mistake, for that man eventually will make a mistake, while the samurai who did make a mistake hopefully learned from it.

  4. Anonymous Says:

    I agree I think for most people it is a comfort thing. If its a PuG raid and the 13 year old RL has been dropping F bombs in vent since recruiting 24 people to join them. I think some people would think, "if I speak up, they are gunna boot me and I’ll be saved without a chance to redeem myself"

    now why would you go into a pug raid like that in the first place? Good question, I’m just suggesting an answer to the question with an extreme scenario.

    I think most people would have known better after 1 min in vent to gtfo of that raid, but the fear is there in all cases and it’s easy to hide behind your monitor and think if I don’t say anything they will never know.

  5. Chawa Says:

    I am starting to believe that sometimes, a person just can't see that they have made a mistake. They have wrapped themselves up so tightly in denial that they seriously can't see it. Or perhaps, they seriously don't ever want to see it.

    At my workplace, if a mistake is made, my first reaction is to review my work and see if I was the cause of the mistake. Is that a lack of pride in myself?? Could be but I'd rather think it's an acknowledgement that I'm not perfect.

  6. G-Rebel Says:

    As a rule I only PUG with complete failures. It makes me feel better about myself. As long as I can prove to everyone that I am perfect and they are losers, I'm happy.

    Gosh, I hope everyone realizes that I'm totally kidding. I think I take it to the extreme,actually, and blame myself for just about everything. I've never been kicked from a pug because I admitted a mistake.

    I try to not stoop to the level of the inevitable jerk and play the blame game, I just stay calm and ask "now that I know I will do better next time". So far this has worked.

  7. Keeva Says:

    Last night on Putricide, I died to Malleable Goo. Embarrassing.

    So as we were running back.. I admitted that I had problems telling if the goo was heading my way - whether it was getting closer to me or further away.

    I felt stupid saying it, but I didn't want to die to it again and look like an idiot, so I spoke up.

    I'm never afraid to say "my bad" and take responsibility for a noob moment.

    I also believe that if you are given the chance to explain yourself, people don't get on the defensive automatically. I encourage my raid leaders to ask people, "Why did you die?" - this gives people the chance to say "yeah, I messed up and stood in a void zone, I won't do it again" OR explain what happened if it was something out of their control.

    I find this makes people much more open to admitting their mistakes - because they won't get blasted for it, especially if it genuinely wasn't their fault.

    And I know that personally, once I've made a mistake and owned up to it in front of everyone, it's very rare that it will ever happen again.

  8. Ophelie Says:

    I think it's harder to owe up in a PuG because you're grouping with strangers. They're quick to judge and are very defensive themselves.

    I don't see the big deal about owning up in a guild raid though. I have heard guildies argue until they're blue in the face that it wasn't their fault and I just don't get it. Geez, heaven forbid you have a moment of humanity. The horror.

    I do get a little annoyed when I say something like "my bad, was too slow this time" and someone answers "well, don't be too slow"


    I hate when something stupid and non constructive like that is said in a raid.

  9. Ulv Says:

    I've just posted a comment over on Matticus that touched on this point.

    Being honest about a mistake or one's ability to deal with a situation in a raid environment is critical.

    It's very tough, particularly with some players (younger ones generally) to get them to be that honest but, as a Guild/Raid leader, it's important to grow that kind of atmosphere where people know it's fine to be honest and not to fear punative action.

    I'd much rather wipe to a known mistake than wipe and have no clue or have to dissect logs for 15 minutes before we attempt again.

    Conversely there's nothing that loses a raider credibility in my eyes than blatantly getting a boss mechanic wrong time and time again (e.g. Rotface's slimes last night... Argh!) but claiming you know what to do and don;t need it explaining to you again.

  10. Fieryangel Says:

    I have no problem admitting when I am wrong and I find it refreshing when others have no problem owning up as long as we can learn from our mistakes and try to do better the next time.

    What I don't like is when someone has a problem with another person's ability to admit fault.

    The other night I got hit on Icehowl's stomp-and-throw-yall-against-the-wall thingy (he had me targeted). I never die to that but my mouse stuck and I didn't start my feet moving quick enough. The rest of the group still finished, no biggie, but when the question went up as to who caused the enrage I admitted it was me and my bf wondered why I would admit to it (he won't say a word when he's at fault). *sigh* I mean, I was in a little nook right by the wall - like it wasn't obvious that I didn't get out of the way when Icehowl charged at me? I would rather admit it then be called out.

    Oh, and my world does explode a little when I don't have a new post from you - I love your blog!

  11. Tam Says:

    I was in Leeds, otherwise I would have exploded due to lack of Miss Medicina in my blogosphere :)

    I genuinely think it's self-consciousness not pride that keeps people from admitting when they go wrong... raids can be so unforgiving and, as you, certain types of RL will just berate you and berate you for making the slightest mistake that I can see why people would rather keep their head down.

    I do try to admit it when I screw up but it's not exactly pleasant...

    Also I think negotiating healing assignments is often difficult if you don't know the other healers very well - it can so easily seem like you're inept or slacking, especially if you have to ask for help.

  12. Kotakh Says:

    Warning - Off topic comment incoming...

    Hey Tam, what have you done with your blog? I could access it from work last week without any problem and now it has been blocked because of... Adult content!!

  13. @Kotakh

    Hadn't you heard? Tam has decided to take his blog in a new direction. We are all recipients of his new Full Monty hobby.

  14. Anonymous Says:

    I have always admitted my mistakes as quickly as possible. As a shape shifted druid, I'm rather conspicuous - it's not like everyone didn't know it was me already.

    I have recently taken on leading more and more raids. Players who don't admit mistakes are a bit of a problem for me, since as a relatively new RL I'm reticent to call them out. I'm more likely to find a way to shift the blame to myself.

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